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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 23, 2009 3:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Interesting Guillaume, just the other day I spent ten minutes and attempted to jot down, just off the top of my head, what I thought were the top ten, classic shows in Grateful Dead history. Not the best or greatest shows, but the shows I felt were the true classics, based on my definition of that term.

I interpret classic to define an indisputable level of recognized excellence, combined with timelessness. I also considered the reputation of the show, its sound quality, and the degree to which it circulated (i.e. shows we all had on cassette before the digital age).

I found it impossible to select ten, however I was able to come up with twenty that I felt were true classics:

In no way would I ever consider 2/26/77 to be a classic. Max might disagree with me, and I although I consider the show to be a top ten performance for 1977, it falls far short of that level of excellence. Similarly, 10/31/80 is no where close to being classic, even though it has a brilliant acoustic set, and is perhaps one of the better shows of 1980.

I found this task extremely difficult, and I'm sure that I left out dozens of performances some of you folks consider greats! But this is my list of the TOP twenty classic shows from the Grateful Dead's history:

02/14/68
02/28/69
02/14/70
05/02/70
05/15/70
11/08/70
02/18/71
04/29/71
07/02/71
08/06/71
12/05/71
04/14/72
05/11/72
08/27/72
09/21/72
11/11/73
02/24/74
06/18/74
08/13/75
05/08/77

Not surprisingly, you wont find a single show performed after 1977 on my list, however, I was astonished by the number of performances from 1971 that I included!

What shows do you all think should be considered true classics?

This post was modified by Cliff Hucker on 2009-11-23 23:46:49

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Poster: billydlions Date: Nov 23, 2009 3:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Cliff, There's got to be a few worthy shows from the 80's. How about 9-6-80? I think 10-31-80 belongs on that list for the totality of the show. As I've said here before I believe 3-9-81 is the best played show of the'80's.

Agreed that 2-26-77 does not belong. I can name 10 better shows from 1977.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 23, 2009 4:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Now I'm not going to say that there were no "classic" shows performed during the 80's, but can you honestly name one that can crack that list? At the expense of which show?

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Poster: billydlions Date: Nov 23, 2009 4:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

2-24-74 is out and 3-9-81 is in!

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 23, 2009 4:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

I attended 3/9/81, and you are not of a sound mind if you believe that it is in the same class as 2/24/74 :)

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Poster: clashcity Date: Nov 24, 2009 10:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

No more true statement has ever been uttered.

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Poster: DianaW Date: Nov 24, 2009 6:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

So many lists, so little time.
(grateful newbie)

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Poster: bbbrew Date: Nov 24, 2009 8:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5-6-70 Saint Stephen

Hi Di, I noticed a while back you were on a Saint Stephen kick. Have you ever heard this one from 1970?
http://www.archive.org/details/gd70-05-06.sbd.gans.94.sbefail.shnf

Not really a classic Saint Stephen, however, I believe the show itsself is epic and classic. Good candidate for a top 20 or 30 on context alone. Listen to Bob try to leave the garden early with a Not Fade Away, abandoning the last two stanzas of Saint Stephen. Blasphemer. Jerry leads them back into the garden to finish the song properly and with force. Its a fun ride.

I was playing with crayons when this show went down, so I'll leave you with a post about the show and context from someone with more experience and tenure than I.
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=245798
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=248148
Thanks Monte.
I hope you have fun here Di.

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Nov 25, 2009 8:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5-6-70 Saint Stephen

Thanks bbbrew - indeed it is pretty cool that way Jerry reels it back in. I think this was one of the very few GD tapes I had in College.

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Poster: bbbrew Date: Nov 25, 2009 9:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5-6-70 Saint Stephen

Good tape to have jg. I imagine it got into circulation pretty quick being recorded at a college. I was pretty fortunate to have many east coast and Marin deadheads in my dorms at college with loads of tapes. I went with only 2, 4-6-69 and 6-18-74, but came away with many more. Good times. Merry Thanksgiving to you and yours.

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Poster: DianaW Date: Nov 25, 2009 4:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5-6-70 Saint Stephen

Hi, thanks! I'll have to listen in a few days - sadly away from anywhere I can stream music ... looks enticing.

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Poster: bbbrew Date: Nov 25, 2009 8:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5-6-70 Saint Stephen

Your welcome. Merry Thanksgiving to you.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 24, 2009 7:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Hey D: here's a link to a bunch of top ten/top etc listings Dham compiled sometime ago, but since they contain the good Dr Flashbacks, and strats, and some others, they are defn worth scrolling thru...this will really put you on overload!

Copy and paste, cut copy and paste! I have more recent ones, but they are on a diff computer...

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=74130

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 24, 2009 8:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Here's another simpler one compiled by our own hard working DMax and Hook's Beka:

http://www.deadhookforums.com/showthread.php?t=12686

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Poster: DianaW Date: Nov 24, 2009 8:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Oh, excellent, thanks! Got a long drive tomorrow, which is not nearly so painful with many hours of the Grateful Dead ... though with other family members in tow, I will have to give equal time to other tunes ... have a happy turkey day, I'm probably off line till next week.

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Poster: Stealz Date: Nov 23, 2009 5:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

All this and still no love for 10/13(not 12)/68.


Sheeesh.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 23, 2009 5:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

For starters, I still believe 10/12/68 is a notch above 10/3, especially sound quality wise. And while both MIGHT be regarded as classics (10/12 certainly is), do you think either belongs in this top twenty list? And at the expense of which show?

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Poster: billydlions Date: Nov 23, 2009 6:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

How does 7/2/71 make your list? It's an ok show, but not even a top 10 for 1971.

10/15/76 deserves consideration.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 23, 2009 6:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Youre certainly entitled to your opinion, mine is:

7/2/71 is an extremely well played show, albeit somewhat out of tune. That has circulated as a pristine pre-FM SBD since probably when you were in junior high! It is firmly entrenched in many folks top tens for '71

10/15/76 is an excellent show from '76 that has circulated mainly as an average audience recording, now as a Charlie Miller soundboard with bad patches

A no brainer...

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Poster: cousinkix1953 Date: Nov 24, 2009 12:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

"7/2/71 is an extremely well played show, albeit somewhat out of tune. That has circulated as a pristine pre-FM SBD since probably when you were in junior high! It is firmly entrenched in many folks top tens for '71."

A bootleg double LP hit the streets about six months after the show. It was sold at some of those independent hippie owned record stores around the SF Bay Area. I still have it somewhere around here...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 24, 2009 4:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Yep; that's what I was getting at in my response above; it and Hollywood were the two big "complete" double album boots...very nice...did your 7/2 have the "red" (?) Fillmore photo with Bob front and center? Hollywood had "imbedded" artwork and orange disk labels...I still have them both, and I added the track times.

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Poster: deyzof49 Date: Nov 24, 2009 5:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Nice to know you still got your bootleg albums. I got various historical artefacts in my own personal archive. Love the Harding show and now groove to 1971-08-06. fantastic Loser.
I truly appreciate everyone's show suggestions.

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Poster: 73head Date: Nov 24, 2009 7:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

CANT BELIEVE any real head would omit..

11/17/73
9/28/72
10/27/79

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 24, 2009 4:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

I have to agree that all three of those shows are true "classics"

I would probably rate those three among the top 25 or 30 all time cassics, particularly the legendary Stanley show...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 23, 2009 6:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Seeing a bit more of what went in to your analysis (via your comments here), I would suggest that 11/7/71 might warrant consideration (Harding)...out west, in the mid 70s, it was generally viewed ahead of 7/2 (one of my favs, double album boot release) and 8/6 (another release absolutely fav release)...because the broadcast was a bit better than 7/2, the tapes that circulated were viewed as a cut above the two albums. Of course, this is just based on the folks I happened to talk to over those years, and really that would only be East Bay, but you get the idea...not sure about back east. The Felt Forum release at least for us, and the tapes, were partials...

I still listen to 7/2 and 8/6 more, but have a real soft spot for 11/7, in part because of the great banter.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 23, 2009 6:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Guillaume, you are truly amazing!

11/7/71 was the 21st show on my list, dropped in favor of 11/14/72, at least partially because '71 seems over represented?

But I feel vindicated!

This post was modified by Cliff Hucker on 2009-11-24 02:54:39

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 23, 2009 7:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Ha! Well, that's me--good for about four yrs, and that's all there is...

Great stuff.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 23, 2009 9:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

In retrospect, I'm wondering if the '66 Ivar show doesnt deserve to be in the top 20?

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 23, 2009 7:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Sound quality on the Harding (11/7/71) pre-FM is just a cunt hair short of perfect, and the keyboards just a touch distorted. Still, if you wanted to include it instead of 7/2/71 or 8/6/71 I coudnt argue...

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Poster: billydlions Date: Nov 23, 2009 7:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

11/15/71 & 10/26/71 (RT3?) are better shows than 7-2-71. I'm not sure when 11/15 became available but many of these 71 shows didn't turn up until recently so that may be why 7-2 was the better known show, but I still believe inferior compared with all the new releases/upgrades.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 23, 2009 7:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Remember, we are talking "classic" which does not necesarily mean best!

You just acknowledged that some of these shows have not circulated until relatively recently.

7/2/71 may or may not be inferior to say 11/15/71 (jamming wise it is), but thats not the point!

And dont short change 7/2/71, its a phenomenal show (100 pts) that has circuated in fantastic sound quality since the beginning of time...

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Poster: Stealz Date: Nov 23, 2009 8:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

This is a spot-on opinion of 7/2/71.

I couldn't put 7/11/72, 11/15/71, or 10/26/71 ahead of it for any reason (that I can think of right now).

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Poster: Stealz Date: Nov 23, 2009 6:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

I wasn't implying that it or 10/12 should be included in your list at all or that either show should replace any found on your list. It is your list after all.

I think 10/13 is grossly overlooked but I do agree that 10/12 is a step above and it would at the very least merit consideration should I find myself compiling a similar type of list to that of yours.


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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Nov 23, 2009 6:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

It might be interesting to create a list of potential substitutes for each of the shows on any of the lists posted.

You could have 10/13 in the "foot notes" as a good listen while you are enjoying a similar show from the same era.

Or perhaps one of the European 72 shows instead of Ventura 72.

This way, you could have a top 10 but still make room for other great shows :)

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 23, 2009 6:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

"All this and still no love for 10/13(not 12)/68.


Sheeesh"

I "love" both 10/12 and 10/13, and consider 10/12 to be a "classic" and a top five show of 1968!

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Poster: spacedface Date: Nov 23, 2009 7:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

A show from 1971 would go no doubt.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 23, 2009 7:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

You could make a valid arguement for that!

And 1969 seems under represented...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 23, 2009 3:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

An excellent list, my friend. Did you do it with a consideration for "what others might think"? IE, sometimes, I pick a show that though I don't listen to as much, I consider historically significant; really, 2-14-68 is in that category for me...not sure if that makes sense.

Here is mine, with the BIG caveat that it is based on MY own interests, playing time, etc. IE, these are shows I select to play for folks to highlight what the boys did...so, it is VERY idiosyncratic:

02/14/68
10/12/68
12/29/68
02/22/69
04/05/69
02/14/70
05/02/70
09/19/70
02/18/71
08/06/71

Thanks.

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Poster: banditos33 Date: Nov 23, 2009 4:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

I find it interesting that if you asked the majority of people their favorites many of the same shows would pop up frequently. No matter of the year preference.

This post was modified by banditos33 on 2009-11-24 00:07:14

This post was modified by banditos33 on 2009-11-24 00:07:25

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 23, 2009 4:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Your point being?

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Poster: banditos33 Date: Nov 23, 2009 4:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

My point being that usually the same shows appeal to the masses.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 23, 2009 5:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

"I interpret classic to define an indisputable level of recognized excellence, combined with timelessness. I also considered the reputation of the show..."

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Poster: banditos33 Date: Nov 23, 2009 5:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Maybe this will shed some more light. I am a long way behind the likes of WT, LiA, Monte, BD, SDH and I guess yourself and many others on here as far as GD info and shows. It is a big help when I see a show review and highlights. All the while many of the same shows are highly regarded by the well informed.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 23, 2009 5:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Indeed, but the topic of this thread is not "lost treasures" "under appreciated gems" or "off the radar shows"

Quite the opposite, we are discussing the timeless "classics" shows that we all enjoyed decades before we ever envisioned or even dreamed about a LMA...

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Poster: banditos33 Date: Nov 23, 2009 5:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Would someone who speaks Huckaneese help this dickhead read and understand. Maybe you should try Rosettastone dip shit.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 23, 2009 6:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

"I am a long way behind the likes of WT, LiA, Monte, BD, SDH and I guess yourself and many others on here as far as GD info and shows. It is a big help when I see a show review and highlights"

You certainly are! And you seem to be a complete dickhead as well!

Cant drill down and read show reviews on your own? Why not listen to shows on your own and review them yourself?

We all had these shows on cassettes when you were finger painting with the contents of your pampers you stupid fuck. Listen and learn for yourself asshole...

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Poster: banditos33 Date: Nov 23, 2009 6:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Easy Cliffy baby I havent heard you this upset since you were called a mommas boy.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 23, 2009 6:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Business slow at the Lost Asshole's Pub?

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Nov 23, 2009 4:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Still no love for '76... oh well...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 23, 2009 6:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

I can't recall--do any of those Orpheum shows from July of 76 rate consideration as "top of the yr"? I think you and I have discussed my attending those...

The big problem I have with any post 71 show is that because of my limitations, I don't listen to shows from any other time period, ie, to the extent I have all of the ones I listed. I figure you'd have to really get into 76, 77 and 78, like DMax has done with his yr by yr analysis...then you could do it; my point being I think you would want to compare shows from "within eras", if you follow me.

I would think most would consider the 70s to consist of say, two post 71 "mini-eras": 72-74, pre break, and 76-79, post break K&D eras or some such...I would think you would want to break it down to compare shows within those spans with one another, and when you came up with the best one, then make the big decision CLIFF alludes to (ie, if I selected a 77 show, should it now beat out one of my 70 shows, etc.).

Defn a tougher job than what I did, which was to select them based on my personal listening time, use with friends, etc., etc.

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Nov 23, 2009 8:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Well, ideally: yeah! I see your point. I have listened to as many '76's as I can... but it's consistently inconsistent that year. We've discussed this before, it's true... cos we were looking for good Cosmic Charlie's, and '76 is the year I think they finally got it right, although '69 ones are 'interesting'... :D

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 23, 2009 5:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Actually, even though Deadmax insists that I am a "curmudgeon" I love the extended Slipknot!s and the long intro jams on the Eye's of the Worlds of 1976. But honestly Styro, what show from '76 would you include in the top twenty of all time, and at the expense of which show?

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Nov 23, 2009 8:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

7/18/76 can replace that overrated Cornell '77. In fact, 5/13/77 could Also replace the Cornell show, but that's not my point. IMO, of course, but I don't understand the love for '77 (from some, not necessarily you) and no love for '76. I've always said: '67 - '76... two reverse numbers, my two favorite years (but '72 and '69 are close behind).


EDIT: I wanted to add that your list is great as it stands, I just thought I'd stick up for one of my favorite years. I appreciate the thought that went into your list and Tell's, and the rest...

This post was modified by Styrofoam Cueball on 2009-11-24 04:50:09

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 23, 2009 4:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

"Did you do it with a consideration for "what others might think"? IE, sometimes, I pick a show that though I don't listen to as much, I consider historically significant;"

Yes, and no. I did not try to pick shows based on what anyone might think, however, I did try to be subjective, and select shows that I thought were true "classics" by my definition of that term. Regardless of my opinion. For instance, my personal favorite shows are from January and February 1968. But I did not include any of these in the top twenty. 1/20/60 must surely be in the top fifty!

And yes, I believe these to be the top twenty most "historicaly significant"

Remember, I consider many more performances to be true classics. This is just my list of the top twenty!



This post was modified by Cliff Hucker on 2009-11-24 00:06:41

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 23, 2009 4:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

Oh yeah, I understand...that Aug show from 75 is one that folks talked about for a long time after it was broadcast live (the "tightest" show we ever heard), and if I was asked to be more objective about the top ten over the lifetime of the band, it would be in my "objective" top ten...ie, I would select that one, along with ones I'd develop from you, reviews/lists of Dr F and so on, since I really don't know the yrs post "my" era. Though folks have talked about shows I was fortunate enough to attend, such as Grendel, I doubt that I would select any of those from 77 & 78 unless I was really convinced by ALL of you voting them in or some such.

The only thing in defense of my list is that is certified "Donna Free" and "keyboardist neutral"...

JK! That's a JOKE, okay? I love Donna...did you see how nice she looked in the latest pic by Monte?

Whoops...gonna get in trouble again...

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Poster: snori Date: Nov 23, 2009 4:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

It's tough even bringing it down to 20. Interesting point about 1971 - I've been increasing the number of shows from that year. I already had 3 on your list, and added 18th Feb and 2nd July in the last month. Even so, I don't think I'd have 5 shows from '71 and only 1 from '73.

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Poster: billydlions Date: Nov 23, 2009 4:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: In case you were wondering...DEAD related.

1971 was really a great year, far underrated IMO. 4/28, 4/29, 8/6 are all well known. 8-14 & 8-26 are nice shows right before PP left. The early Keith shows are amazingly well played: 10-21, 10-26 (best Other One ever?) 11-7, 11-14, 11-15 and the the return of PP- 12/5, 12/7, 12/31. They sounded like a rock band in '71 and a jazz band in '73 and that's why I can listen to so much dead- it's like hearing multiple bands playing over the years.

This post was modified by billydlions on 2009-11-24 00:37:55

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